Thread: ATG Heavyweight lists who do you have?

Originally Posted by Lights Out

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Jack Johnson
6. Harry Wills
7. Jack Dempsey
8. George Foreman
9. Sam Langford
10. Rocky Marciano
11. Evander Holyfield
12. Joe Frazier
13. Mike Tyson
14. Jack Sharkey
15. Riddick Bowe
16. Joe Jeanette
17. Sonny Liston
18. Floyd Patterson
19. Ezzard Charles
20. Wladimir Klitschko

Say what you want about Wlad, but he's in there for the same reason Rocky Marciano is. Rocky dominated a poor era of Heavyweight boxing, just as Wlad is doing now. He has the best resume of all active Heavyweights, has become lineal champion and is fighting the best, despite what others say. He was scheduled to fight Haye but Haye pulled out (despite wanting to reschedule, it would have been impossible to reschedule and still fight in the same venue..), he took on Chagaev and dismantled him and is in the prime of his Boxing career. I don't particularly like him but he steals number 20.

Very good list

I tried to green rep you but it wont let me at the moment.

Anyway very good.

I would disagree to a degree regarding Wlad in that I think Marciano still beat better fighters and also he did go unbeaten and certainly didn't get smashed to bits by the likes of Ross Purity and Corrie Sanders....

So I do disagree regarding your comparision and positioning of Wlad, but really that is the only thing I can find subjective fault with as your list is so good.

Originally Posted by Slim Jim

*sigh* Charles is much bigger of a win then Corbett or Fitz IMO

I agree with you Slim and I can't understand how Marciano can rate Jeffries so high from such a limited career, especially a career from back at a time when boxing was in its infancy and not anywhere near as professional as it later became. Also how many of these fights have we seen? And was any of his wins really bigger than Walcott and Charles? I find that hard too see.

BUT......ultimately it is subjective and a case of each to their own and maybe Marciano has his reasons.

On which note, what is your list?

And Marciano what is your list also?

I know that our lists change periodically and positions alter, but why not put one down so we can discuss it?

1.Rocky Marciano
2.Jack Johnson
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Joe Louis
5.James J. Jeffries
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Gene Tunney
8.Ezzard Charles
9.George Foreman
10.Joe Frazier
11.Larry Holmes
12.Max Baer
13.Joe Choynski
14.George Chuvalo
15.Sonny Liston

Originally Posted by Slim Jim

1.Rocky Marciano
2.Jack Johnson
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Joe Louis
5.James J. Jeffries
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Gene Tunney
8.Ezzard Charles
9.George Foreman
10.Joe Frazier
11.Larry Holmes
12.Max Baer
13.Joe Choynski
14.George Chuvalo
15.Sonny Liston

No Lennox Lewis?

How do you rate Chuvalo, Jeffries or Baer above Lewis?

That totally throws me Hehe

I understand how some guys can rate Jack Johnson very high, a lot of the old times speak VERY highly of him. Mmmm think you have just played the numbers game with Marciano though.

I mean Marciano fought in a poor era and he ducked a few of te top contenders didn't he so?

Is Marciano really more worthy than Lennox Lewis? I mean who has the better names on their resume?

Marciano wouldn't live we some of the BIG athletic fast and slick heavyweights IMO.

I think Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis would have had him for lunch.

IMHO you have to look beyond just numbers of wins or unbeaten records and look at WHO each fighter beat, WHO they lost to and also if anyone WHO they ducked.

For me the 50s weren't a million times better than this era of heavyweights, I think it was one of the poorest eras in heavyweight boxing history, with the 60s/early 70s being the best and the 90s being the next best.

But hey explain to me why you rate the guys as you do- out of interest.

Originally Posted by calzaghefella

I mean Marciano fought in a poor era and he ducked a few of te top contenders didn't he so?

Is Marciano really more worthy than Lennox Lewis? I mean who has the better names on their resume?

Marciano wouldn't live we some of the BIG athletic fast and slick heavyweights IMO.

not any worse then Lewis' era and Archie Moore and Charles Beat those Top Contenders he people Claim he Ducked to get there shot at Marciano, And Wasnt Wlad lewis #1 contender for like a Year? but he lost to Sanders so does that Mean I Can Say Lewis Ducked Wlad?

Marciano has Walcott x2, Charles x2, Moore, Lestarza(a Worthy top Contender that people Forget)

He Beat one of the Slickest/Technical HW's of all Time in Walcott Who Ali Claimed to have Study fights from

Originally Posted by marciano1952

not any worse then Lewis' era and Archie Moore and Charles Beat those Top Contenders he people Claim he Ducked to get there shot at Marciano, And Wasnt Wlad lewis #1 contender for like a Year? but he lost to Sanders so does that Mean I Can Say Lewis Ducked Wlad?

Marciano has Walcott x2, Charles x2, Moore, Lestarza(a Worthy top Contender that people Forget)

He Beat one of the Slickest/Technical HW's of all Time in Walcott Who Ali Claimed to have Study fights from

Archie Moore is NOT a heavyweight..just isn't mate. He was a top light heavyweight who back in the old days with much small heavyweights still couldn't win a heavyweight belt due to his lack of size. He wouldn't stand a chance in hell against most sizeable modern 90s B level heayweights.

As for Charles, again he was a lightheavyweight, he won the wolrd heavyweight title in a dodgy era. He wouldn't have got near a belt at HW in the 60s, 70s, late 80s or 90s

It isn't that these fighters aren't great, they just aren't real heavyweights.

As for Wlad and Lewis, you have to be having a laugh, please tell me you are joking right?

I mean first off it was Vitali who was his number #1 manditory and he took him on at a weeks notice in the worst shape of his life while old and fat after partying for months after beating Tyson and STILL beat him.

Lewis would beat Wlad every day of the year- Lewis would NEVER lose to Wlad, he just isn't good enough- PERIOD.

Lewis had a better chin, better jab, better right hand, better reactions, better speed, better counter-punching, better range, greater agility, far more skilled as a boxer, more powerful left hook and right hand, he had a left hook of the jab and he could body punch.

One of the best quickest right hands in HW histroy and one of HW best ever counterpunching boxers. comapring Wlad to Lewis is absoluetely laughable and his resume is a load of junk in comparison to Lewis' resume.

Just some of Lewis's wins;

Vitali
Mike Tyson
Hasim Rahman
David Tua
Francois Botha
Michael Grant
Evander Holyfield (we all know it was 2 wins)
Shannon Briggs
Andrew Golota
Henry Akinwande
Ray Mercer
Tommy Morrison
Phil Jackson
Frank Bruno
Tony Tucker
Razor Ruddock
Gay Mason


Seriously that makes the resume of Jeffries and Marciano and Chuvalo etc look like a total load of turd. IMHO

How many of the above would Marciano beat, or Jeffries have beaten.

I tell you what more than half that lot KTFO of Jeffries.

And if Marciano went through that lot he would have got beat a minimum of 4 times.

Also the 90s was clearly one of the greatest eras in HW history so I have no idea how you can compare the truely shite 60s to it...I mean Hehe

Each to their own man, if you think differently then fight you corner and give me some shite back Haha, but I have to call it as I see it if you know what I mean.

I know you like Lewis but his Resume Isnt that Great...Wins over Corrbett and Fitz are Beter then Any of lewis' wins throw Peter jackson, Hank griffin, tom Sharkey in there and Jeffries Resume is just Better Plain an simple IMO.....And what about Lewis 2 KTFO Loses in his PRIME?

Lewis Came on in the LATE 90's After Alot of the Good 90's HW's had Faded, and Wlad WAS Lewis #1(in the Ring Mag) While he was the WBO Champion befor the Sanders Loss

As for Charles and Moore not being HW's NEITHER WAS Marciano he Weighed in the 180's his Whole Career....and for the Last time YOU DONT RANK FIGHTER BASED ON HOW YOU THINK THEY DO H2H there is NO right Answer

i think we should just ignore each other on this We Have Debated this Many times And if just Frustraits both of us

Lewis is majorly overrated. I do not play the numbers game. I do not like Marciano because of his record, I like him because of his style and of all of the facts that I heard about him...

But Lewis would have been destroyed hands down by marciano because his jab or anybodys jab is not at all good enough to keep him at bay.... same thing goes for Larry Holmes. At the most, they would outbox Marciano for the first five rounds, but pretty much after that Marciano figures them out. And after that, a relentless beating ensues. Besides, we all know that Lennox Lewis's chin was a wee bit wobbly, which would be terrible to have in a fight against Marciano.

And if Ezzard Charles competed in the late 90s, he would have been the heavyweight king, even if he was but 190 pounds in the heavyweights. He would have cleverly outboxed everybody including Lewis. And same things for the 80s. Until Evander Holyfield steps into the game, Ezzard Charles would have been the dominant force of the 80s.

Lennox Lewis only beat two really great names in the heavyweight history, and that would be Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson, both of whom where clearly over the hill, and both of whom if they had been in there prime they would have beaten Lennox handily, Mike Tyson would have won the fight by KO.